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The boring repetitive progression everyone has to put up with.

This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Obesitybee 4 days, 21 hours ago.

#126296
Lightell
Participant

The current progression path to “get better” at the game boils down to going to an island, getting its databanks for knowledge and using it to get a CHANCE at a beter engine,wing or cannon schematic.

1- This is a mechanical loop, it can and is done without thought so it isnt engaging or fun, its work, the only player expression happens outside of this central loop, those being in the ship building, cosmetics and PVP, so why is the central loop of this MMO not based around those mechanics? Not to say it HAS to be based around them, but if it isnt then the loop has to include some sort of player expression by itself, which the current one doesnt, hence it being boring for PVE players.

2-It gets very repetitive, the islands and their occasional decent design are the only thing keeping the player interested, and yet after a while of grinding knowledge,the islands are stripped of theyre occasional decency, now theyre just seen as databanks reserves, when a player arrives at a new island hes like : "GOD just give me the databanks already" instead of "wow this island is cool" or whatever someone says when theyre enjoying exploration.

And PVP is the opposite, theres so many choices, scenarios and experiences to have, engaging in it is one of the only fun things in the game, specially because theres another fun feature that makes it possible, the shipbuilding which stenches of creativity and strategy. And that`s why PVP and shipbuilding are the only fun things in WA, and thats bad because this knowledge progression is NECESSARY to advance in the game, which mean players are forced to interact with grinding and boringness, instead of actual fun systems both PVE and PVP players can interact with.

“Solution” – Add another progression process in the game that incentivates any form of self expression and isnt or doesnt feel grindy, they dont really need to have progression but, something other than PVP that lets players do what they want would be nice, I think a “job” feature would be great, assuming that you will in some way intergrate trade and other features for player interaction, here`s the basics of it if you want to read it, if not then thx for reading m8:

– All players can choose what “job” they will have, be it a trader, historian, scavenger, fighter, etc… The act of choosing a job is like choosing your playstyle, what you want to be better at.

– So let`s say someone picks the scavenger job, the more he salvages things from ruins and chests, the better the rewards are from these salvages, he gets “better” at salvaging while becoming a scavenger.

– Someone picks the fighter job, the more he fires cannons at other ships, the more extra power in cannon schematics and slightly better OH (cannons only of course).
– And many others that fit the role playing feel of the game.

– There are 5 levels to these jobs, the first 2 are obtainable without having to equip the job, fro example: you can equip fighter and still earn scavenger points by salvaging, these first 2 perks are minimal, but after unlocking those, you have to equip the job you want to upgrade further, this system will make it so that the player gets involved in a playstyle beneficial to his job selection (the playstyle the player likes to have) , that will be necessary to completely upgrade one, which means he plays how he wants to, and progresses, he is able to express himself.

– Oh heres something important, YOU CAN ONLY FULLY UPGRADE 2 JOBS

– To change a job there must be a time restraint (1 to 2 hours)

– Of course the “upgrades” shouldnt be too drastic, as reference these PVP oriented fully upgraded jobs would offer a 10% improvement only, as for the PVE jobs (trading, scavenging, etc…) , I dont see why not go nuts with them, since it`ll mostly be big quality of life improvements in certain areas, nothing wrong with that, unless it interferes with PVP.

Just a minor complaint thats been really bugging me, some of the islands are really bad, I wont go on detail but pls review most of them, 25% of them dont deserve final release.

#126301
Ena
Participant

I really like thinking outside the box and i agree on the general problematik you explained as repetetive.

Overall you ask for a market place, where players can actually offer trades and services and even bounty´s.

The problem aorund a job market would be bad human behaviour, like betrayal and infiltration and ofc it needs a quest system on top of it for the job. Generally speaking i understand, what you are looking forward to, a simple market would be a step in that direction.

#126306
Fallen1125
Participant

I agree that a specialization (or 2) would be a great benefit to the knowledge tree. It would allow players to focus and differentiate from one another. It would also mean players would be able to make decisions on what crew position they would like better.

So with that said, what are your thoughts on these as possible job trees. These are just some I think would work and be easily implemented
-Gunner (as you mentioned), increases over heat limit on cannons and scatter guns, further progression would enhance fire rate or power and gives you better ciphers from salvaging guns…
– Pilot, increase power and turn rate of wings while on the helm. Maybe an increased field of view…
– Mechanic, reduced materials needed to repair ship components.
– Scavenger / Explorer (as you mentioned), an increased grappling hook range or reel in speed. Increased materials from salvaged items, higher levels might provide an impact resistance similar to the food that gives you damage reduction.
– Historian, could receive a small bonus to knowledge gathered from journal entries. (This would make the entries you find and already have valuable to historians)

I think 3 combat related and 3 exploration related would be a good mix.

#126405
El Whoops
Participant

Please devs consider this: There once was a time when this was considered to be a curse of the gods…
Do you know ye ol’ Sisyphos? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphos

And YOU … made a game out of it.

#126433
Entity Progressive
Participant

I don’t agree with class based systems in open world games, so I can’t say I’d be on board with creating artificial benefits based off of playstyle. This type of thing has been done to death in my opinion and actually having equal footing with each person we see is nice, and knowing my achievements are from personal skill and not some grinding timetable that everyone and their cousin does once people know the best way.

For instance if I want to be a better pilot I just have to become better through practice, not AFK fly in circles to have a mathematical algorithm in-game make my ship turn faster for me. I’d rather make better wings to achieve that. If I want faster cannons I work or trade for them, instead of some mathematical input that can’t tell when all I am doing is sitting out in the middle of nowhere spamming cannon fire for xp.

I however think there could be quest lines or something similar to create some content that isn’t strictly grind and pray for a good RNG.

#126470
Obesitybee
Participant

I don’t agree with class based systems in open world games, so I can’t say I’d be on board with creating artificial benefits based off of playstyle. This type of thing has been done to death in my opinion and actually having equal footing with each person we see is nice, and knowing my achievements are from personal skill and not some grinding timetable that everyone and their cousin does once people know the best way.
For instance if I want to be a better pilot I just have to become better through practice, not AFK fly in circles to have a mathematical algorithm in-game make my ship turn faster for me. I’d rather make better wings to achieve that. If I want faster cannons I work or trade for them, instead of some mathematical input that can’t tell when all I am doing is sitting out in the middle of nowhere spamming cannon fire for xp.
I however think there could be quest lines or something similar to create some content that isn’t strictly grind and pray for a good RNG.

We’ve heard this before but you need to remember WA is a video game. The real life progession of practice and experience translate poorly in a game. Video games just lack the depth and fidelity to properly express personal expertise. In real life if you want to be an excellent herbalist you need to spend years learning about plants and travel the world and work with the thousands of species of plants and experiment for decades with mixtures, that ain’t happening in a video game buddy boy. In the game there will be probably a couple of different plants and you will exhaust all experimentation in probably 1 hour of gameplay. Everyone can become an expert herbalist in WA with a 1 hour ceiling and thus herbalism is a dead profession.

Herbalism to become a valuable profession must be at least an uncommon profession. In order for any profession to become uncommon there must exist barriers. The barriers can not be time and quantity because remember games lack the depth and fidelity. Therefor the barrier must be access. The access to be most conducive to good gameplay should be one based on choice and not force. For example I choose to spend my limited knowledge points on herbalism and not the other professions. This is better then I’m forced out of herbalism because I can’t get access to plants for whatever reason. I’m not excited about profession tropes done to death in MMO’s but I see no better alternative.. do you? If you do please let us know, seriously.

#126475
Entity Progressive
Participant

” I’m not excited about profession tropes done to death in MMO’s but I see no better alternative.. do you? If you do please let us know, seriously. “

Well using herbalism as an example I do not feel that I need to have to choose between herbalism grinding or ship flying grinding to give herbalism, or piloting a unique value regarding accomplishment.

What I would rather see is a valuable increase in my ability to accomplish goals by using herbal items in game due to critical obstacles, similar to how cannons or walls work now. For instance there was a video about the potential for objects flying around in a sandwall damaging the player. I could chance it and possible get one-hit killed by a flying rock, or take the necessary food buffs to increase my chances, as well as build an actual cabin on my ship, and maybe loot/trade/make a headgear with goggles to keep from being blinded. None of these require the game to artificially create an algorithm that makes my herbalist skill better, or my tailoring, or my flying, I just have a better chance at not dying and losing everything if I actually use the food, clothing and superior ship design.

Don’t feel like searching for a loom and goggle schematics? Turn to the community, trade or steal them.

WA already takes this path to a degree, for instance one can’t (without exploits) just skip over learning engines an sail into T4. The in-game obstacles mandate learning or building some engines. With that I can make superior engines through trade or securing the most efficient resources for the building process, which is my choice to make crap or solid engine types. If I have good engines its due to work, negotiation skills, or luck but not because I built 100 engines and now have some magically created building buff that someone that chose herbalism doesn’t have. If that herbalist wants good engines like mine they have equal opportunity, they just have to take the time to do it.

#126489
Obesitybee
Participant

Well using herbalism as an example I do not feel that I need to have to choose between herbalism grinding or ship flying grinding to give herbalism, or piloting a unique value regarding accomplishment.

It doesn’t have to be a choice. Knowledge nodes can give points to both your ship tree and profession tree.

WA already takes this path to a degree, for instance one can’t (without exploits) just skip over learning engines an sail into T4. The in-game obstacles mandate learning or building some engines. With that I can make superior engines through trade or securing the most efficient resources for the building process, which is my choice to make crap or solid engine types. If I have good engines its due to work, negotiation skills, or luck but not because I built 100 engines and now have some magically created building buff that someone that chose herbalism doesn’t have. If that herbalist wants good engines like mine they have equal opportunity, they just have to take the time to do it.

I haven’t read an alternative to the standard profession system found in many MMO’s. What I proposed is an exact parallel to what’s already in the game which is knowledge points progression through farming knowledge nodes. Why is it a problem when it comes to getting better at a profession but not a problem at getting better at flying ships? You’re arguing the progression system is fine for ships and I’m saying ok just pass along that same progression system into professions and now you got a problem with it. I’m not trying to single you out because the same sentiment has been expressed by others before. I think sometimes people don’t see the trees for the forest. It’s in the game already I’m just saying expand it to solve a problem.

#126499
Obesitybee
Participant

I misunderstood, I took it as we would choose to be an herbalist, or a fighter, or a scavenger thus having improved food buffs OR improved cannons, OR higher salvaging quantities but not be able to do all of them.

I posted about this before but I should have been more concerned about being understood then repeating myself. My fault.

What I don’t care for is choosing a scavenging skill line and magically getting more resources per salvage. I prefer to get more resources by salvaging more nodes, or possibly making a tool upgrade, not just some grind-fest that is nothing more than a time sink to justify the improved salvaging rates.

Grind fest is already in the game and my proposal doesn’t add to the grind fest because the knowledge nodes you harvest already is all you need for your professions. I’m in agreement with you because that kind of scaling of harvesting isn’t in the game so why start it when it’s not necessary. In keeping with the theme of the game I would simply put in schematics you unlock that allows you to craft unique equipment for your profession. For example one of the schematics for level 1 tier Herbalism is a crafting station you install in your ship. The crafting station allows you to craft potions, edibles and medicine you couldn’t without it.

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