Buy Game Flag
Before using the forum please read and make sure you agree to our Forum Rules. Forum Rules

Home Forums Feedback and Suggestions Gliders and timed explosives

This topic contains 44 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  Cheese Puff 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 45 total)
Author
Posts
#67385
Thor_Wotansen
Participant

Right now in the game a player with a tiny platform, a glider and a box of timed explosives is the most powerful force in the sky. With the investment of half an hours work a player can destroy a week or more of work by another player. There are two ways to fix this, remove timed explosives or remove gliders. While I’m the first guy to say that gliders are the funnest thing in the game, my recommendation is that the gliders should get the ax, and timed explosives should require a hundred metal and a hundred fuel to craft one explosive. This way, players are required to build ships and take them about the sectors rather than just building a ship and parking it at the top of the sector and gliding to every island for the knowledge nodes and schematics. This would also balance out the issue of the players with gliders being able to park their ship out of load range and glide to an island with little fear of loss if they meet an unsavory character. Timed explosives however, if they are made more expensive to craft, coupled with the requirement of having to be in grapple range to get onto an enemy ship, they will be the boarding weapon of choice, balanced by the risk of getting an attacking ship within grapple range. Again, I love the glider, and I would be sad to see it go, however the game in its current state favors the people who simply wish to send ships into the void, rather than actually fighting a fair battle.
On a similar note, timed explosives should drop on death and the gun and any other projectile weapons should have a clip that remains with the weapon through death so that the player isn’t unarmed on their own ship immediately after respawning.

#67386
Lexhy
Participant

I agree with Thor, i would rather loose the glider than having greifers misuse it. The explosives cost [20 metal] [50 fuel] = [5 bombs] so 1 cost 10 fuel 3,32 metal. That is the cheapest item in the game by a long shot, Not only that, you keep it in death. Having a glider that stick around forever, the amount of time being able to grief someone from glider is probably under a minute. I wish you lost everything upon death, glider even. It just isn’t anything to loose if you die, you never mind, even having a personal respawner is gonna be a constant 10 sec cooldown, doesn’t matter how many times you die. There are a lot of issues like this that needs to take care of before the launch of early access

#67387
Fureniku
Moderator

My idea for the glider is to simply restrict it’s access.

I agree that no matter what, the glider is a griefers dream. They need to be harder to get for a griefer without too much impact on real players. My thought for this is simply remove the schematic for gliders, and drop them on death. This way players playing properly can have a wardrobe full of gliders for their players in case they die (as they’re not exactly super rare – maybe make them a little more common but it’s pretty fine as-is), but griefers will struggle to get ahold of one and keep it for long.

IMO, that would be a great balance that would let both explosives and gliders remain in the game, and players won’t struggle too much with them.

An alternative to just losing the glider on death, they could simply take damage and not be repairable – so lost every few deaths or even before death if you heal a lot.

#67388
Captain-Harlock
Participant

Yes currently you can build a totally PVP GEARED SHIP…… but the most powerful weapon in any sector is a Player with 40 lead and 60 fuel and a 1 deck platform while you have to hide on your own ship looking for metal after you re-spawn from being blown up totally defenseless while the same clown can glide back with out ever losing his explosives as they stay with him thru death….

this is the in game equivalence Of playing battlegrounds being fully geared for pvp and being beaten to death with a frying pan after you have shot the guy in the face 5 times and he still come back with the frying pan to taunt you…

HORRIBLY BROKEN END GAME PVP IS A DEATH SENTENCE FOR ANY GAME THAT IS OPEN WORLD PVP…..

This close to early access this feature should be top of any list or players will be working their way slowly up to badlands and promptly leaving the game on mass as the lose to guys with the in-game equivalence of a frying pan

#67422
Jayonspeed
Participant

I like gliders the way they are , they introduce freedom like no other game mechanic.
Timed explosives can/should be nerfed, they should be more expensive ( never seen a game were the most powerful weapon was also the cheapest ), you should lose the ones you have on death ( you lose the freaking bullets) and a counter to that weapon should be available ( like in any game there is a weapon and a way to counter it ) being a EM pulse that disables them in bulk once fired or something in the ship that whilst working disables the use of explosives like a EM emitter , if you want to use explosives you have to disable that first and people can take measures to protect that piece of tech on their ship.

Killing the glider will remove one of the items that bring fun to the game and to exploring.

Right now is a matter of balance and mechanics , why should i go with my ship to an island if some derp can just steal my ship or the content of the containers while i’m there exploring? Its less risky to just leave it 4000 meters in the air and glide down to the island , its risk VS reward. We could say “remove the glider” so i have to travel to every island with my ship but that wouldn’t fix anything , it would just make the game more frustrating. Give me a reason to take my ship , give me unique items to store and collect ( that would also introduce some point to piracy, now is just shooting down people because… reasons) , give me a way to counter the derps and i will gladly take my ship to the island even if i have the choice to use the glider.

Also , mantas are attracted to the noise of the engines and they can wreck engines like they are nothing… the game is screaming for people to use the glider instead of the ship.

#67423
PulseFiction
Participant

Gliders don’t have to be removed as a schematic. The way they are now is great they provide exploration for players to enjoy at a faster rate than having to pilot your ship everywhere. With the way mantas are right now we do need something other than just sails to propel ourselves around the world.

With explosives, it’s a silly mistake to make them have little resource requirement and their abundance in chests is silly too.
Every iteration of the alphas I rushed to get the glider and the explosives cos I knew if I ran into anyone I could mess their day up and I have had three experiences where the players I fought would complain that I just blew up their ship which took them x amount of hours to build.

And do you know what? It sucks it’s not even a risk and it really feels like you brought a gun to a knife fight with explosives.

They need to either make the resource requirement ridiculous, add a new resource that is only found in the end game areas or even add like a component recipe for em, e.g. To build the explosive you need wiring which is made through a specific metal (copper) and another component for the explosive itself.

Right now I always laugh when I put a cannon on my ship because I’m sitting there knowing I’m never gonna use it.

Explosives really discourage ship to ship battles.

#67426
kn1ghtpr1nce
Participant

Well, I’d heard something about anti player weapons on ships, so you could shoot down people coming at you with a glider. Due to the nature of this game, you should be prepared to loose everything, don’t give the griefers the satisfaction of seeing you rage.

#67430
Jayonspeed
Participant

Well, I’d heard something about anti player weapons on ships, so you could shoot down people coming at you with a glider. Due to the nature of this game, you should be prepared to loose everything, don’t give the griefers the satisfaction of seeing you rage.

True , and that’s why i carry 2 stacks of timed explosives in my quick bar to explode my ship at any time. No one will ever take anything from me!! ANYTHING! I’ll kill myself, thank you!

#67432
Strite
Keymaster
Staff
Staff

So, right now the end-game PVP meta is broken. Absolutely no denying that after what I witnessed first hand lastnight. Early game doesn’t seem to be as bad because people generally don’t have gliders/timed explosives (unless they’ve obtained them in the higher tier zones and then backtracked, a very real possibility) so ship vs. ship combat does seem more evident in the lower tier biomes.

Here’s my main issue with the way PVP works right now; there’s just no risk involved in player vs. ship combat. We all already know how expendable our avatars lives are in this game. Time and time again Bossa have likened our ships to the Worlds Adrift equivalent of the bases you build in other survival games such as Rust and ARK. If that is to be the case then the game needs to be completely re-balanced to favour the defenders and not the attackers.

If you want to attack somebody’s ship then you need to be doing so at a huge risk to yourself (just like in other games). If Bossa really want people to get invested in their ships and spend days or weeks creating and upgrading them (again, as you would with bases in certain other games) then you simply cannot allow them to be destroyed in under 60 seconds by people who have nothing to lose and who just keep returning over and over again. The two ships we lost last night pretty much amounted to nearly two weeks of effort and all our worldly resources. Whilst the ships themselves were newly built they were done so using materials we’d gathered over the past week and by cannibalising our old ship in the process. It took griefers gliding in with timed explosives approximately 5 minutes all told to completely obliterate two weeks worth of work. I’m no game designer, I don’t claim to be and my hope is that Bossa already have some ideas on how to deal with this but I am a long time PVP’er and it’s obvious to me that right now this is horribly unbalanced. Below I’ve proposed some of my own ideas on how to fix it.

Timed Explosives

I’m starting with timed explosives but they’re only a part of the problem.

• Timed explosives should be dropped on death – It’s beyond me why this isn’t already the case. Timed explosives used to be practical for mining before node shells could be salvaged but now they’re pretty much obsolete for that purpose, making them almost exclusively a PVP tool. What makes the game even more skewed in favour of attackers is the fact that players drop pistol ammunition when they die, which leads to the scenario my crew encountered lastnight; the attackers simply kept gliding back down over and over again, keeping their timed explosives through death and not even fighting us whilst we were having to re-craft ammunition every time we died. The biggest issue being that once the attackers had destroyed our crates we had no access to metal to craft any more ammunition to hold them off.
• They should cost significantly more resources to craft – Goes without saying really but right now they’re just not costly enough for what amounts to an end-game raiding tool.
• You should only be able to craft one at a time – Right now timed explosives come in stacks of 5. A single stack of 5 is enough to bring down a ship, enough said.

Glider

I’m sorry to have to say this as I love the glider but right now it is unbalanced. It was never intended as a substitute for your ship, Bossa have stated this time and time again and yet despite the recent speed nerf it’s still a viable alternative. I’m not convinced removing the glider schematic is a good idea but there are some steps that can be taken to re-balance it.

• Increase the rate at which you lose altitude whilst gliding – From what Bossa have said about the glider it was always intended for short range travel, yet you can still use it to glide across an entire biome if you start at a high enough point. I do think that once the world height is reduced and the islands levelled out somewhat that will go some way toward making long range gliding impractical but I do think you need to drop altitude more quickly than you do right now. I love the glider and really dig the idea of crew members using it to scout out islands you’re approaching but IMO you should already need to be pretty close to an island for that to be viable.
• The glider needs to cost more resources to craft – Just like timed explosives above, making the glider cost more resources to craft means people will be less likely to jump in to battle with it without careful planning. People need to be risking a ton of resources before engaging in PVP otherwise it becomes meaningless.
• Drop glider on death – As some above have suggested, I don’t think dropping the glider item on death is unreasonable. This will encourage people who’ve found a single glider in a chest to be less reckless when using it without penalising those who have the schematic and can re-craft it.

Even if all of those changes were made there would still be issues with combat. It’s easy to say the problem lies with timed explosives and re-balancing them will fix the issues but timed explosives are just one part of a bigger problem. Remove timed explosives and people can still glide on to your ship and shoot out your core, granted you lose ammo on death but it’s cheap enough to craft. Such things are for smarter people than I to figure out how to fix but one thing’s for certain; Broken PVP can and will break the game if not addressed. It’s easy to say ‘this is alpha’, I’ve said it myself many, many times but there comes a time when you need to stop hiding behind excuses and start addressing some fundamental flaws and with early access practically upon us that time is now.

I have nothing but love for Bossa and this game and whilst this post might come across as harsh to many know that it’s written out of love rather than spite. I want to see Worlds Adrift succeed, to flourish. I don’t want PVP to be removed, I’ve supported open PVP in this game from day one but in its current format there are glaring issues and they need to be brought to light. Raiding (whether against a static ground base or an airship) should always favour the defender unless they’ve designed their base poorly or the attackers have a significant advantage in the form of numbers or tactics. If you choose to engage a ship in PVP it should be at great personal risk, either in the form of your own ship in the case of ship vs. ship or in the form of resources in the case of player vs. ship. I wouldn’t want to see the ability to sabotage ships removed completely, it’s a valid tactic but it should be much more difficult than it is right now.

I’ve been in the alpha since alpha 2, I’ve been invested in this game and this community for over a year and a half and I can honestly say that last night was the first time I threw my hands up in disgust and was about ready to stop playing until early access. I’m still here because of how invested I am but that won’t be the case with everybody.

Anyhow, that’s my two cents on the subject. I hope it helps somewhat 🙂

#67437
kn1ghtpr1nce
Participant

What about only cannons and any other ship-mounted pieces that are added being able to destroy key ship parts?

#67438
Jayonspeed
Participant

I don’t think increasing costs alone will fix it , some people play this ( or will play this ) for 10 hours a day , resources wont be an issue for them and it only turns the game into one of those hundreds of games that “the one who has more time wins” and in the meanwhile the casual players can’t do anything or get anything done because the time they could be playing will be spent mining rocks and losing the items because they made the mistake of standing in the deck of a moving ship. Life is cheap in worlds adrift and it has to be because you die a lot due to freezes , glitches and bugs and increasing the resource gathering requirements when you lose resources for no reason so often is not IMO the way to go.

If there’s a way to sink your ship there has to be a way to counter it, that’s how games should be made, and you are correct, the advantage should always be on the side of the defender or in the worst case scenario and even plain field but even this is not ideal because the attacker doesn’t have the same amount of stuff at stake.

What about only cannons and any other ship-mounted pieces that are added being able to destroy key ship parts?

I don’t think people would object to the use of the pistol if it does moderate a reasonable amount of damage.

This is not an easy subject to balance since people can also use shitty ships to ramm your ship into oblivion. They lose an hour of shipbuilding and the other guy loses 2 weeks of it.

#67439
Strite
Keymaster
Staff
Staff

@jayonspeed In fairness you can already counter timed explosives (theoretically); Shooting people who are placing timed explosives interrupts them. Also, they take 10 seconds to place but can be picked up instantly if you press E on them. The issue we had was that there were 4 guys all placing charges down and we just couldn’t stop them quickly enough. Partly because of derpy physics, partly because of our lack of preparedness and partly because one of the aggressors had the invincibility bug so could not be killed (hopefully that issue will be sorted soon).

#67440
herb
Keymaster
Staff
Staff

This is a great thread, guys. Really appreciate the amount of thought and effort it took to help analyze the game.

We’ve been feeling the same way, and have some ideas, but no silver bullet yet. We’re still working on solutions, so please keep discussing!

#67441
kn1ghtpr1nce
Participant

So the main issue I see is the overwhelming with weight of numbers thing. Maybe if the smaller ships were significantly faster so they could outrun the bigger ships of pirates and griefers?

#67445
Fureniku
Moderator

It might also be worth mentioning my “backup core” idea again here; a secondary core which provides no additional lift but will kick in if the first takes too much damage. Obviously as a balance it would add additional weight to the ship, and it could even go as far as to cause instability problems in flight once the first is damaged (as it tries to get back online).

It would at least slow down griefers; but it would also slow down legit combat as a trade off. Some people might call that a good thing 😛

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 45 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Are you sure you want to report this content?

Yes
Add to wishlist button
Bossa Studios logo Improbable logo

Bossa Studios is a multiple award winning independent games developer and publisher happily based in London. We’re the makers of the mega-games Surgeon Simulator, I am Bread and the upcoming MMO Worlds Adrift. Oh, and we’re completely in love with our players (even when they’re angry with us!)

© 2017 Bossa Studios Ltd. Worlds Adrift is a registered trademark of Bossa Studios Ltd. All rights reserved.

EULA – Privacy & Cookies Policy